Mugen Seiki MBX-6 ECO

[stigv]

Fant et par lister med tips til hvordan man skal justere bilen på rctech.net. Mulig de har vært publisert her tidligere, men ....

More Overall Steering:

Lower shock mounting in on arm.

Thinner oil
in front shocks.

Softer front springs

Stiffer rear
springs

Short rear upper link

Longer front upper
link

Thinner or no front swaybar

Less rear toe in

Short
Ackermann plate



More Steering Into the Corner:

Thinner oil
in front diff

Less caster

Stand up front shocks on
tower

Front upper link down on tower

Short ackermann
plate

Steering link back on Ackermann plate

Thinner rear
swaybar

Lean rear shocks down on tower



More Steering
Mid-to-Exit of the Corner and On-Power:

Thicker oil in Front
diff

More caster

Lean front shocks down on tower

Thicker
rear swaybar

Stand up rear shocks on tower



Less Overall
Steering:

Front shock out on arm

Thicker front shock
oil

Stiffer front spring

Thicker oil in front diff

Thicker
front swaybar

More rear toe-in

Long rear ipper link

Raise
front upper link on tower



Better Jumping Ability:

Stand up
shocks

Stiffer shock springs

Thicker shock oil

Smaller
piston holes

More anti-sqat

More downtravel (specially
front)

More kickup



More Rear Traction:

Long rear
upper link

Raise upper link on tower compared to hub

Lower
complete lower link

More rear toe-in

Thinner diff oils

Lean
rear shocks over on tower

Larger holes, or more holes in
piston



Better Bump Handling:

Adjust shock oil (usually
thinner, check shock absorbers advice)

Lean shocks over on
tower

thinner diffs

More rideheight

More
downtravel

Cut tyres inside and outside



More acceleration
and forward bite:

Thicker oil in diffs

Long upper
links

Smaller clutchbell, larger main gear

Thicker
clutchsprings



More stability in long sweeping
corners:

Stiffer front springs

Stiffer swaybars

Thicker
oils in diffs



What to do first on a high traction
track:

Front shock out on arm

Stiffer swaybars

Less
rideheight

Smaller piston holes or thicker shockoil



What
to do first on a low traction track:

Lean shocks over

Larger
piston holes, or thinner oil

Long upper links

More rideheight

[stigv]

Og del nummer to, med en litt annen vinkling:

Toe
---
Toe is the angle (inwards or outwards) that the tires point when
the wheel is straight ahead. Toe-in means the front of the tires point inward,
and toe-out means they point outward. Zero toe means the tires are parallel to
each other. The biggest effect toe has on the handling of the car is on
stability. When a car hits a bump or enters a corner, forces on the tires act to
steer the car off to one side, making the car unstable and difficult to control.
Toe-in counteracts this, improving stability. Toe-in also causes understeer
during initial corner entry. Interestingly, toe on the rear wheels has the same
effect on handling as toe on the front. Toe on the rear wheels is useful for
tuning the handling of the car as it is exiting corners.

Front Toe
"IN"
Slower steering response
More straight-line stability
Too much
will casuse greater wear at the outboard edges of the tires

Front Zero
Toe
Medium steering response
Minimum power loss
Minimum tire
wear

Front Toe "OUT"
Quicker steering response
Less straight-line
stability
Too much will cause greater wear at the inboard edges of the
tires

Less Rear Toe "IN"
Less straight-line stability
Less traction
out of the corner
More steering
Higher top speed

Intermediate Rear
Toe "IN"
Intermediate straight-line stability
Intermediate traction out of
the corner
Intermediate steering
Intermediate top speed

More Rear
Toe "IN"
More straight-line stability
More traction out of the
corner
Less steering
Less top speed

****


Caster
------
Caster is the angle to which the steering pivot axis
is tilted forward or rearward from vertical, as viewed from the side. If the
pivot axis is tilted backward (that is, the top pivot is positioned farther
rearward than the bottom pivot), then the caster is positive; if it's vertical
to the lower pivot point then the caster is zero.

Less Castor (vertical =
0 castor)
More OFF POWER steering into the corner
Less steering out of
the corner
Less straight-line stability

More Caster (laid back
more)
Less steering into the corner
More ON POWER steering out of the
corner
More straight-line stability

Benifiets of castor: (more
positive castor/laid back more)

Maximizes tire contact pacth during roll,
braking, and acceleration
Improves turn-in response
Increase directional
stability
Improved steering "feel" and self-center
Increases dynamic
negative camber during turn in

Castor Vs Camber:

Camber doesn’t
improve turn-in, positive caster does.
Camber is not good for tire wear.

Camber doesn’t improve directional stability.
Camber adversely effects
braking and acceleration.

****

Shock
Absorbers
---------------
The purpose of the shock absorbers is to dampen
the oscillation of the springs. The dampers not only dampen spring oscillations,
but they also affect handling during transient conditions (such as the entry and
exit of turns), but not steady-state conditions.

More
Dampening
Slower shock action = could be unstable on bumpy tracks
Slower
chassis weight transfer
Generally less traction

Less
Dampening
Faster shock action = less chance of tire leaving the ground on
bumpy tracks
Faster chassis weight transfer
Generally more traction


****

Springs
-------
The purpose of the springs is to
control wheel movement and keep the tire in contact with the road over bumps and
irregularities. Stiffening the springs front and rear will reduce body roll and
make handling more responsive, but cause a loss of traction over bumpy surfaces.
Likewise, softening all of the springs will give more grip on bumpy tracks, but
increase roll and reduce responsiveness. You can also use the springs to affect
the car balance. You can reduce oversteer by stiffening the front springs or
softening the rear. Likewise, you can reduce understeer by softening the front
springs or stiffening the rear. However, be advised that changing just one end
also affects fore/aft weight transfer. By softening the front springs, you'll
also get more dive under braking. Softening the rear will give you more rear
weight transfer under acceleration, which can give you more traction on the rear
wheels in straight-line acceleration. Read and understand about "anti-roll bars"
before you come to the conclusion that you need to change your springs, springs
should be one of the last, if not the last thing you should change to effect how
the car handles other than during a bump condition.

Using Softer Front
Springs
More steering
Slower steering response
Used on bumpy tracks

More 'diving' under braking
Used more for tight technical tracks


Using Harder Front Springs
Less steering
Faster steering response

Used on flat tracks
Minimum 'diving' under braking
Used more for
large fast tracks

Using Softer Rear Springs
More traction out of the
corner
Slower steering response
Used on bumpy tracks
More front lift
under acceleration
Used more for tight technical tracks

Using Harder
Rear Springs
Less traction out of the corner
Faster steering response

Used on flat tracks
Minimum front lift under acceleration
Used more
for large fast tracks

****

Downforce
---------
Downforce
is the aerodynamic force pressing the car down on the track and improves
cornering grip. This downforce is dependent on forward speed, and increases as
you go faster. Increasing the downforce all around increases cornering speed,
but also increases drag, which gives you slower straightaway speed, and you may
also need to increase ride height and/or spring stiffness to prevent bottoming.
Likewise, decreasing downforce gives you lower cornering speeds but higher
straightaway speeds, and allows you to run softer springs and/or a lower ride
height. Also, you can also use downforce to fine-tune balance at high speeds. To
reduce understeer, increase front downforce or reduce rear. To reduce oversteer,
decrease front downforce or increase rear. Keep in mind that these adjustments
are dependent on forward speeds and has less effect as speeds drop, so you can
use this to give the car different handling characteristics for different speed
ranges.


****

Differential
Settings
---------------------
Differential's are used to allow the wheels
on the same end of the car to rotate at different speeds during cornering.
If
diff's are set to tight or are "locked" the tires will fight each other as the
car is turning.

Front Diff Looser than Rear Diff
Steering response
increases
If rear diff is to tight, the car will understeer into the corner,
and will cause loss rear end sliding out of the corner.
Could cause
oversteer while entering the corner (depending on other settings)

Rear
Diff Looser than Front Diff
Steering response decreases, stability in turns
in increased
Could cause understeer or "push" while entering the corner
(depending on other settings)

****

Front Anti-roll
Bar
-------------------
The front anti-roll bar affects the amount the
car’s front end rolls in a turn. As a car enters a turn, centrifugal cornering
forces cause car roll and weight-transfer to the side of the car on the outside
of the turn. A very stiff front anti-roll bar increases the load on the outside
front tire, and decreases the load on the inside front tire (it can help to note
that a stiff bar will tend to raise the inside front tire, thereby lowering that
tire’s load). At the same time, this stiff front anti-roll bar increases the
load on the inside rear tire, and decreases load on the outside rear tire. In
this situation, the balance of side traction between front and rear ends shifts
to the rear, and you get a car with a lower amount of steering, but more
steering responsiveness.

Don’t get confused between amount of steering
and steering responsiveness; a car with a soft front anti-roll bar can have a
high amount of steering, but it takes more time for the chassis to roll and
transfer weight with this soft anti-roll bar and this creates slow steering
responsiveness. A stiff front anti-roll bar will create very quick car weight
transfer and thus very fast steering responsiveness, but with a lower amount of
steering. In other words, amount of steering refers to how much steering ability
the car has; steering responsiveness refers to the speed or quickness of the
car’s steering ability.


Softer Anti-roll bar setting
More
steering into corner
More steering in the corner
Slower steering
response

Harder Anti-roll bar setting
Less steering into corner

Less steering in the corner
Faster steering response

****


Rear Anti-roll Bar
------------------
The rear anti-roll bar
affects the amount the car’s rear end rolls in a turn. As a car enters a turn,
centrifugal cornering forces cause car roll and weight transfer to the side of
the car on the outside of the turn. A stiff rear anti-roll bar increases the
load on the outside rear tire, and decreases the load on the inside rear tire
(it can help to note that a stiff bar will tend to raise the inside rear tire,
thereby lowering that tire’s load). At the same time, this stiff rear anti-roll
bar increases the load on the inside front tire, and decreases the load on the
outside front tire. In this situation, the balance of side traction between
front and rear ends shifts to the front, and you get a car with less rear
traction, but more steering responsiveness (refer to the Front Anti-Roll bar
page for more explanation on steering responsiveness). The opposite happens with
a soft rear anti-roll bar: relative to the stiff setting, there is now less load
on the outside rear tire and more load on the inside rear tire. The front inside
tire also has less load, and the outside front gets more load. Now, the balance
of side traction shifts to the rear, creating more rear side traction in the
corner, but less steering responsiveness.


Softer Anti-roll bar
setting More side traction in the corner
More traction out of the corner

Slower steering response

Harder Anti-roll bar setting Less side
traction in the corner
Less traction out of the corner
Faster steering
response

****

Tires
-----
The tires are perhaps the most
important part of the car. You can gain the biggest improvements by installing
tires with more grip. Tires are available in many different compounds: hard -
soft. Soft tires have more grip than hard tires, but wear out faster. You are
also able to mix types front and back. You can reduce oversteer by using hard
tires in front and soft tires in back. This gives the rear tires more grip than
the fronts, making them less likely to slide out. Likewise, you can reduce
understeer by putting soft tires up front and hard tires in back. If you car
feel's like it is "loose" or "unstable" you may actually want to try a harder
compound, by using a harder compound the tire will have less bounce, less side
flex, and will typically offer a much more stable foundation.

Tires are
to small:
Low forward traction
Low top speed
Car becomes
twitchy

Tires are to big:
Very slow steering response
High chance
of traction rolling
Tire distortion in turns
Less stable

Softer
Front Tires:
More Steering
More wear
Less stable

Harder Front
Tires:
Less steering
Less wear
More stable

Softer Rear
Tires:
More rear traction
Less steering
More bounce on bumpy
tracks
Less stable

Harder rear tires:
Less rear traction
More
steering
Less bounce on bumpy tracks
More stable

****


Camber
------
( PLEASE READ ABOUT CASTOR BEFORE YOU ADJUST YOUR
CAMBER )

Camber is the angle the tires make with the road and is measured
in degrees. Tire grip varies with the camber angle, and ideally is maximum when
the angle is zero. However, the maximum grip is found with a small amount of
negative camber because of tire sidewall deflection (when the top of the tire is
tilted inward it is called negative camber. Also, as the body rolls in a turn,
the suspension movements themselves causes some adverse camber change. These
combined effects mean that for maximum cornering power you need to have some
amount of negative camber. However, too much camber will cause you to lose grip
because the outside edge of the tire is being lifted off of the pavement,
reducing the contact patch. So to summarize, as the camber angle increases from
zero, cornering grip improves to a point, then falls off.

-2 deg. ~ -1
deg.
Front Camber
Quicker steering response
More overall side traction

Less chance of traction rolling

-1 deg. ~ 0 deg.
Front
Camber
Less quick steering response
Less overall side traction
More
chance of traction rolling

-2 deg. ~ -1 deg.
Rear Camber More overall
side traction
More traction under braking
Less chance of traction
rolling

-1 deg. ~ 0 deg.
Rear Camber Less overall side traction

Less traction under breaking
More chance of traction rolling



****

Gear Ratios
-----------
General:
Gear ratio
affects the balance between a car’s acceleration and top speed. A small clutch
gear with a large spur gear produces a high gear ratio (the figure is a high
number, the gear is called "short") gear ratio, giving faster acceleration but
lower top speed. A large clutch gear with a small spur gear produces a low gear
ratio (the figure is a low number, the gear is called "long" / "tall"), giving
slower acceleration but higher top speed.

Measurement:
Gear ratio is
measured by simply dividing the spur gear (two speed) teeth number by the pinion
gear (clutch) teeth.

Adjustment:
You can change the clutch and
two-speed gears independently or together to get different gear ratios. This
applies to both first and second gear. Remove a gear and replace it with one of
a different tooth number. YOU MUST add the teeth number up between both first
and second gears, they must equal the same. For exaple if first gear spur is 47
teeth and first gear pinion is 17, add 47+17=64. Then add your second gear spur
and pinion, 20+44=64. This will ensure that you will have the same mesh on both
gear's as long as you have mounted your engine straight.

Lower gear ratio
(longer gear)
lower acceleration,
higher top speed

Higher gear
ratio (shorter gear)
higher acceleration,
lower top speed

****


Ride Height
-----------
A lower ride height lowers the center of
gravity, which reduces weight transfer during cornering, acceleration, and
braking. The reduced weight transfer improves cornering. A lower ride height
also lowers drag at high speed because you are presenting a smaller frontal
profile to the airstream. Also, by lowering the front end and raising the rear,
you can improve high speed stability and increase downforce by preventing
high-pressure air from building up underneath the nose of the car. If the car is
too low, it can bottom out, though this can be eliminated by stiffening the
springs(which could cause problems elsewhere).

[Esh6]

Du bør også lese setup guiden fra Hudy (den er postet en annen plass på radiostyrt.no hvor jeg hentet den fra);
http://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&...g6X0pb_XPPKy0Q

Den er spesifikk for xray men prinsippene er de samme for de fleste bilene.

[stigno]

Masse justeringer ja, men jeg syns standardoppsettet til Mugen er bra. Bare ha i 4000 olje i bakdiffen. Tror du skal prøve den som den er satt opp i første omgang, og så bare justere en ting om gangen...

[Esh6]

Sjekk ut også Hudy's setup guide;
http://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&...g6X0pb_XPPKy0Q

Den er mer altomfattende og den er generell for de fleste biler fordi om den er skrevet spesifikt for Xray.

[stigv]

Bortsett fra surfing på diverse andre nettsteder går tiden med til å vente på pakker fra den andre siden av dammen, og en fra østerlands rike. Er innom garasjen minst en gang for dagen for å ta på og se på

Har jo egentlig planlagt denne bilen som et vinterprosjekt, men vet med meg selv at jeg er så utålmodig at det er stor sannsynlighet for at det blir gjort en liten prøvekjøring rimelig kort tid etter at motor og regulator er i hus....så da får vi se om det blir utendørs på banen på Hegstadmyra eller i parkeringshuset på Tillertorget (lokalt kjøpesenter). Vinteren lar jo vente på seg, så man kan jo alltids håpe på en utetur....

[stigv]

Sjekk ut også Hudy's setup guide;
http://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&...g6X0pb_XPPKy0Q

Den er mer altomfattende og den er generell for de fleste biler fordi om den er skrevet spesifikt for Xray.

Takk for tips
Skal sjekke ut den også!

[stigv]

Masse justeringer ja, men jeg syns standardoppsettet til Mugen er bra. Bare ha i 4000 olje i bakdiffen. Tror du skal prøve den som den er satt opp i første omgang, og så bare justere en ting om gangen...

De to reglene på forrige side er hentet fra den offisielle tråden om MBX-6 ECO på rctech.net. Har lest side opp og side ned om akkurat det du sier - bruk tykkere olje enn originalt i bakdiffen, så er du på god veg. Standardoppsettet på bilen skal være så bra at det stort sett ikke er mer som skal til for å ha et topp oppsett.

Da blir spørsmålet - hvilken olje og hvor handler man? (skjønner at du anbefaler 4000 i viskositet, men har fått med meg at det er flere som mener det er forskjeller mellom de forskjellige leverandørene også...?)

[stigno]

Kun erfaring med Associated og Losi oljer, og synes begge funker. Men du får kanskje andre synspunkter her?
Selv har jeg blandet 50/50 innen et merke for å få 4000 olje (5000+3000)/2.

[stigv]

Kun erfaring med Associated og Losi oljer, og synes begge funker. Men du får kanskje andre synspunkter her?
Selv har jeg blandet 50/50 innen et merke for å få 4000 olje (5000+3000)/2.

Får vel ta en tur innom smallsize og bunkre, da, tenker jeg

USA-pakken er forresten tollklarert, ser jeg på posten sine sider
Da havner den vel plutselig i min postkasse en av dagene

Sendingen er sortert og videresendt

04.11.2011 09:12

0024 OSLO

[stigv]

Da var endelig regulator og motor i hus Tror jammen meg at vi da har alt som skal til for å få fart på bilen nå, gitt


Må sette opp ei liste over hvilke reservedeler som må handles. Øvre + nedre bærearmer, drivaksler, dempere, ... osv

[stigv]

Måtte jo prøvemontere motoren i går kveld.... Støtte da på en mulig utfordring...

Dersom jeg vil ha polene til kablene pekende rett opp må jeg bruke de minste monteringsskruene. Hvis jeg skal bruke de store blir motoren stående på hodeet, og det er en smule upraktisk.... Går det an å åpne motoren og vri 'frontplata' på den, slik at skruehullene passer bedre?

Reservemotoren er enten montert 'riktig' fra fabrikk eller vridd i ettertid, for der kan jeg bruke de store skruene når polene peker oppover....

Takknemmlig for svar

[ronsand]

Så lenge det er Tekin T8 vi snakker om er bare å åpne den i front (tomme skruer) og vri den slik at den passer best. Har gjort det på alle mine oppsett

[stigv]

Da er en veldig kort første prøvetur unnagjort ute i gata...

Fy F hvor det går! Wheelies på våt asfalt gikk så det grein. Følte jeg kunne holde den oppe akkurat så lenge jeg ville. Samtidig - hvis jeg ikke var like brå på gassen fra start var virket det som om bilen sugde seg ned mot asfalten og bare dro av gårde. Helt konge Mine gutter og kompisene som kikket på løp som pokker når jeg tok løs i en grusdunge he he......småstein kom fort flygende gitt

Bare .en liten 'glitsj' - Den ble vond å få i revers etter ei lita stund. Et lite nugg på styringa, så virka reversen igjen.... Må vel forske litt på årsaken til akkurat det.

Batterier var forresten to stk Orion Rocket 2S 4000MaH 30C i serie.

Gleder meg til fortsettelsen

[stigno]

He-he. Det oppsettet går unna ja
Bare vent til du kjører på bane, og du må holde litt igjen for ikke å hoppe for langt... utrolig gøy!
Bare sjekk tidsforsinkelsen på regulatoren (fra framover til revers), det er litt forsinkelse for at du ikke skal ødelegge motoren.
Hvis du ikke har noe annet problem da.
Batteriene er akkurat nok til å holde unna, 2050kv drar vel nærmere 100 mA, og batteriene gir 30x4=120, dvs nesten 100 mA med 80% belastning.